Tesla Powerwall?

Discussion in 'Energy' started by stevo, Dec 11, 2015.

  1. stevo

    stevo Backyard Farmer Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2013
    Messages:
    1,738
    Likes Received:
    628
    Location:
    Clontarf, Qld
    Climate:
    Sub-Tropical
    I assume everyone knows about this one, it's been all over the news recently and talked about on the net for a while.

    It sounds like an ok idea. As usual I am skeptical about the whole thing. Things with lots of marketing always make me suspicious that they may not be as good as they say and everyone gets caught up in the hype.

    Is it another Flow-Hive?

    People will pay a lot of money and get minimal return?

    For starting off it's aimed at people still connected to the grid but have solar panels. With the way the energy companies and governments work, it may not be worth buying this because they'll probably create a some kind of fee or charge for having it?

    You can also use it as an off-grid battery but that may be expensive compared to existing products?

    The US prices are around $3000 - $3500? which could mean the AUS price could be $4000 - $5000?

    Of course I'm interested as it steers everyone to improve power supply. So here's another thread for us to keep track of and add to :cheers:

    Here's the Tesla website: https://www.teslamotors.com/en_AU/powerwall

    another story here: http://onestepoffthegrid.com.au/tes...ralian-market-as-first-local-installer-named/
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. Mark

    Mark Founder Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2012
    Messages:
    4,469
    Likes Received:
    1,013
    Location:
    Bellmere, QLD
    Climate:
    Sub-Tropical
    The Powerwall by Telsa got a mention in this thread here a little while back also.

    It's perfect technology for off-grid replacing all those banks of car batteries people are currently using.

    Yeah, for most of us on grid we'd have to be careful not to get tied into some scammy electrical company scheme whereby you pay thousands upfront for the "privilege" of installing the powerwall on behalf of a power company which then charges you an obtrusive monthly fee for the energy your solar panels make from the sun. That is NOT going to happen to me...

    One day, I'm going to increase the number of solar panels I have on my roof and buy the latest powerwall hopefully with much better specs that will power my home 24/7 - without the need for grid electricity at all. That's the goal anyway :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. stevo

    stevo Backyard Farmer Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2013
    Messages:
    1,738
    Likes Received:
    628
    Location:
    Clontarf, Qld
    Climate:
    Sub-Tropical
    ahh yes, I thought we talked about it somewhere before, just couldn't think where.
     
  4. Steve

    Steve Valued Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Messages:
    670
    Likes Received:
    248
    Location:
    Brisbane Australia
    Yes, watching with interest.
    Actually just today I read somewhere that they might actually cost a fair bit more than first thought. (maybe $12 to 18,000)
    I'm still going ahead with a 5KW system on the new home and see where the future takes us....
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Mark

    Mark Founder Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2012
    Messages:
    4,469
    Likes Received:
    1,013
    Location:
    Bellmere, QLD
    Climate:
    Sub-Tropical
    18k seems like gouging to me and it's probably a ploy to rip the wealthy off at the start (cause they'd like to be first with their shiny new green technology) then the prices will drop significantly once the initial hype is over.

    I still remember talking to a sales rep at the Farmfest show thingy only about 4 or 5 years ago and getting quoted 16k for a 5kw system that cost us 8k a few years later. It's even less now!

    The power wall will probably be the same - over priced to begin with then cheap as once competition comes in and they need more sales.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. stevo

    stevo Backyard Farmer Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2013
    Messages:
    1,738
    Likes Received:
    628
    Location:
    Clontarf, Qld
    Climate:
    Sub-Tropical
    update: http://www.news.com.au/news/aussies...y/news-story/a595a53af1f5ab1b44221fce10b01312

    Quotes:
    ========
    The cost of a full residential system including Tesla's Powerwall battery was revealed on Thursday to be about $15,000, which includes solar panels and an inverter to switch the panels' DC output into the AC needed for use in the home.

    ========
    With the battery guaranteed for 10 years, the upfront cost compares favourably when set against an average electricity bill of $1,690, as estimated by utility comparison service Bill Republic.
    ========
    An Origin solar system minus the battery costs about $9,000.
    ========


    My question would be, how will it work? When does your home run from the battery and not the grid? Can you control how or when it works?
     
  7. stevo

    stevo Backyard Farmer Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2013
    Messages:
    1,738
    Likes Received:
    628
    Location:
    Clontarf, Qld
    Climate:
    Sub-Tropical
    another article: http://onestepoffthegrid.com.au/more-australian-tesla-powerwall-re-sellers-named-including-csr/

    quotes:
    ========
    Coupling the Powerwall with a 4kW SolarEdge system would cost slightly more, at $15,390, Williams said.

    Williams also told OneStep that he believed that both the market and the technology were at the crucial point where customers could potentially be offered a zero deal offer on a solar plus storage system using the Tesla Powerwall.
    ========
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Mark

    Mark Founder Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2012
    Messages:
    4,469
    Likes Received:
    1,013
    Location:
    Bellmere, QLD
    Climate:
    Sub-Tropical
    Great finds Stevo and it's very interesting.

    I suspect once the Tesla battery gets low it will automatically switch to grid and I suppose most people will want to get the most out of their stored energy before switching to grid so I'd expect most will opt to simply let the battery run out.

    However, I see where you are going with control because if the battery or solar system is not near enough capacity to run a particular home then the owner might want to use the stored Tesla power over peak times to get more value for electricity useage. Makes sense. I guess if they can build such a battery and system they surly will have the software to let the owner manage when it comes on or off...

    The big question in my mind is when in the future are we going to see these units capable of running big houses? It's like the solar hot water system problem - fine if it's just a few people but have the family visiting for Xmas and the last 5 get a cold shower after the beach :D

    To be really viable these systems need to A: Be proven reliable and B: run a home for 24 hrs no matter how many PCs, aircons, TVs, kettles, or whatever else is running over that period.

    I'm sure they'll get there hopefully sooner than later.
     
  9. Steve

    Steve Valued Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Messages:
    670
    Likes Received:
    248
    Location:
    Brisbane Australia
    Completely agree Mark.
    I'm sure they would argue that solar hot water systems have a backup system (gas, elec etc) so no-one should get a cold shower but you are right, lets make an energy storage system that supports a decent size household.
    With all the brains in the world it blows me away that we aren't there yet. Well not at a decent price at least.
    How can we send a whole motorised science lab to Mars and do experiments over 200 million km's away and yet we cant develop a battery system for our own homes.
    I fully support exploration but let's get our own backyards in order before we look next door.
    Just my thoughts....
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Mark

    Mark Founder Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2012
    Messages:
    4,469
    Likes Received:
    1,013
    Location:
    Bellmere, QLD
    Climate:
    Sub-Tropical
    How good are those two points :thumbsup:

    Dare I teeter on the edge of conspiracy theories again but perhaps Govts and big business (despite the rhetoric) don't want a fair priced and fast move into renewable energy and are holding off until they can make it as expensive as oil or coal?
     
  11. Steve

    Steve Valued Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Messages:
    670
    Likes Received:
    248
    Location:
    Brisbane Australia
    You're spot on Mark. As an intelligent species we are not very intelligent! :clip:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Ash

    Ash Valued Member Premium Member GOLD

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2015
    Messages:
    666
    Likes Received:
    283
    Location:
    Preston, QLD
    Climate:
    Temperate (all seasons)
    The theory holds. Otherwise there is no private company incentive to produce a cheaper alternative to what is already available. We're seeing it come to life in all out utility bills and government services- parking costs, rates, etc. One would have to be at least a little sceptical that this is happening.

    What advantage does this power wall system have to the existing hybrid inverter solar systems with battery backup?
     
  13. Mark

    Mark Founder Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2012
    Messages:
    4,469
    Likes Received:
    1,013
    Location:
    Bellmere, QLD
    Climate:
    Sub-Tropical
    I believe the battery is lithium? So longer lasting and better than a heap of venting car batteries taking up space in a shed - probably safer too...
     
  14. stevo

    stevo Backyard Farmer Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2013
    Messages:
    1,738
    Likes Received:
    628
    Location:
    Clontarf, Qld
    Climate:
    Sub-Tropical
    article here: http://onestepoffthegrid.com.au/how...ar-stitch-up-take-part-of-your-home-off-grid/

    =========
    Quote:
    If consumers store their solar energy in batteries they would then use this during later that day/evening. This is the exact time frame Energex has earmarked for newly planned demand-based tariffs. I.e. between 7am and 4pm you may pay 20ct/kwh, but during 4pm to 8pm you pay 40ct/kwh.

    =========

    So they don't want to allow you to use the battery to save money? Isn't that the whole point of getting the battery???

    It sounds like there'd be no point getting batteries if they're going to make up rules so you get no benefit.

    Ofcourse it's good to have a battery as "back up" power if the gfrid goes down, but that very rarely happens at my place, I don't even remember the last time we had a black out and it'd be no longer than an hour anyway.

    =========
    another quote from the article:
    Given the state of flux the utilities are in currently and most likely will be for several years, purchasing a storage system comes with some risks. We advise our customers to consider reducing that risk by taking part of their home offgrid while leaving some of it connected. This means you can keep your 44ct feed in tariff, install batteries (completely separately from the existing system) and by taking part of your home offgrid you’re taking the first steps towards true independence.
    ==========

    I do like the idea of the separate offgrid system, though setting up a separate system is expensive and may not save you any money.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Mark

    Mark Founder Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2012
    Messages:
    4,469
    Likes Received:
    1,013
    Location:
    Bellmere, QLD
    Climate:
    Sub-Tropical
    Nice update.

    It's not going to be easy removing the "money for jam" from the electrical companies - they'll go down kicking and screaming. But to survive they're going to have to come up with a better business model and one that is fairer for a start or people will eventually move off grid.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. OskarDoLittle

    OskarDoLittle Valued Member Premium Member GOLD

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2016
    Messages:
    302
    Likes Received:
    129
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Climate:
    Sub-Tropical
    I believe the Qld Govt recently made a statement that they would remove the larger rebate (was it 44c) from people who purchased large battery systems to store solar. Their logic is that these people will collect their solar during off-peak times, and use the off-peak lower cost grid power, then feed their stored solar power back into the grid at the maximum peak rate. I agree that seems a little unfair and not in the spirit in which the rebates were meant but it does seem that the power companies get far greater protection than the little old consumer...I'm just annoyed that we didn't get our system in in time to get the better rebates!
     
    • Like Like x 2
  17. Steve

    Steve Valued Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Messages:
    670
    Likes Received:
    248
    Location:
    Brisbane Australia
    I've been keeping an eye on a forum we have at work where we have a fair few electrical scientist type people (assumed well educated in this area) chiming in and aren't convinced of the viability of the Powerwall just yet. Obviously we are only going on estimated installation prices at the moment.
    I haven't seen anyone on the forum that is willing to take the leap of faith with it just yet and I think the price will need to come down to encourage the fence-sitters to jump!
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. Steve

    Steve Valued Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Messages:
    670
    Likes Received:
    248
    Location:
    Brisbane Australia
    • Like Like x 2
  19. Codger

    Codger Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2015
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    6
    Climate:
    Temperate (all seasons)
    It looks like my dream of off grid power is still some way off.
    Even lithium batteries wear out over time and I wonder whether the calculations have factored in a replacement cost.
     
  20. Mark

    Mark Founder Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2012
    Messages:
    4,469
    Likes Received:
    1,013
    Location:
    Bellmere, QLD
    Climate:
    Sub-Tropical
    I still reckon we're on the cusp of an explosion in battery technology. Apart from improvements in lithium (which really isn't that new) what other battery types have been invented?

    Those payback times for the powerwall are awful! There won't be a serious market for Telsa if the figures stay like that - lucky the coy is backed by a billionaire.
     
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page