Passionfruit

Discussion in 'Fruit & Vegetable Growing' started by stevo, Mar 10, 2014.

  1. ClissAT

    ClissAT Valued Member Premium Member GOLD

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  2. Kasalia

    Kasalia http://retired2006.blogspot.com.au/ Premium Member GOLD

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    Good thinking ClissAT never even gave it a thought it was a grafted plant. Will check, thanks for links.
     
  3. OskarDoLittle

    OskarDoLittle Valued Member Premium Member GOLD

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    Hmmm well you learn something new everyday. I hadn't realised Nellie Kelly was the producer, and you could get both grafted and non grafted varieties of black and panamas from them. That begs the question (and pardon my ignorance) why would the grafted plant (presumably a true black passion fruit) grow fruit whose seeds could germinate, but wouldn't subsequently fruit, given the right conditions? Isn't the reason for grafting to increase the vigor of the plant under less than ideal circumstances? Or is there something funny that happens once grafted? (Like I say, pardon my ignorance!) I know that avocados grown from seed will be hit and miss, but mangos are pretty reliable grown from seed (apparently). Is it just a "thing" with passion Fruit?
     
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  4. Mark

    Mark Founder Staff Member

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    I don't know either I assume grafting passionfruits is to produce a cross or hybrid on better rootstock.

    I've tried grafted passionfruit plants twice and both were pretty ordinary - sure the fruits were large etc but the plants succumbed to disease quickly whereas our yellow variety dropped by the birds growing around the property grows like hell!

    I'm now growing about a dozen from seed along a trellis so at least I can keep them in check.
     
  5. ClissAT

    ClissAT Valued Member Premium Member GOLD

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    Its all about what's called the F1 hybrid.

    That is, the first generation grow trued to form or implied genetics while all subsequent generations that germinate from seed will revert to the parent plant.

    Same as those vegetable seeds you buy that are F1 hybrids. As opposed to 'open pollinated' which are heritage varieties.
    They are bred for vigour, abundance & taste usually or to grow well in certain climates.
    They are also bred with regard to the right of the breeder. So you cant harvest seed & grow them to get the same quality fruit or veg in that next generation. You are forced to go back to the shop & by new seed thereby providing an ongoing income & return for investment to the breeder or chemical company.

    The root stock is so the plant will tolerate certain climatic conditions, the roots will provide more food to the hungry green top & withstand disease.....hopefully!

    Having said all that, it all depends on whether the root stock is right for where it is planted & whether the root stock sustains any bark disturbance that will upset its growth capacity. The bark of the rootstock must be carefully protected so as to not be disturbed in any way otherwise the damage to the bark will compromise the capacity of the rootstock to fulfil its role as sole supplier of nutrition to the hungry green top.
     
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  6. OskarDoLittle

    OskarDoLittle Valued Member Premium Member GOLD

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    Yup, I get the thing with hybrids...I do wish though that suppliers were more careful with correct nomenclature as the grafted (and non-grafted) Nellie Kelly Black notes only that it's Passiflora edulis (in italics, with a capital - and no variety, cultivar or hybrid name). I take this to mean it's the good old common Aust purple passionfruit, rather than a hybrid like "misty gem" or whatever other silly name marketers come up with. I'd have thought that even if it were a cultivar or hybrid, it should throw seeds that grow fruit of the original P. edulis - which should still be quite tasty?
     
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  7. Kasalia

    Kasalia http://retired2006.blogspot.com.au/ Premium Member GOLD

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    I wouldn't have though Nellie Kelly was a F1, maybe someone better send me some seeds!!
     
  8. ClissAT

    ClissAT Valued Member Premium Member GOLD

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    Passiflora edulis is indeed the latin name for what is known as the good ol' Aussie wrinkly black p'fruit but which in fact is native to Brazil! They make oil from the seeds & flower called Maracuja oil which has health benefits.

    The thing about root stocks is that one widely in use is a very robust native vine of p'fruit that rarely fruits, runs absolutely rampant, has big roots & also the parent for some of the original hybrids due to its robustness & disease resistance. So if you get seeds off a grafted vine, you are likely to get that as a result of growing the seed.

    I have heard of p'fruit roots lifting pavers & garden edging & I would hazard a guess that this is the root stock used.

    Here is the link to google photos of p'fruit vines, flowers, etc. Please look closely as the photos & you will note that some leaves look less segmented, olive rather than vibrant green in colour & have a hazy complexion all of which indicate growth form the root stock rather than the graft.
    https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...i_jcjZAhWIbbwKHWOtAt0QsAQIRA&biw=1467&bih=763

    This guy in this next link talks about not buying grafted p'fruit due to the nasty nature of the root stock which he calls Passiflora caerulea.

    http://www.treefrogpermaculture.com.au/?p=480

    Here's what Nellie Kelly have to say about their grafted varieties.
    http://www.nelliekelly.com.au/faqs-about-passionfruit-vines.html

    Here's al ink to Sustainable Gardening Australia who discuss the reason for grafting.
    http://www.sgaonline.org.au/getting-grafty-–-grafted-plants-explained/

    We do have some native p'fruit here in OZ but they are an acquired taste & have to be picked right on ripening & you have to fight with the wildlife to get any fruit anyway. The people at Tree Frog Permi talk about some of them in that link above. I do grow one native here but it is rampant & gets away easily for not a lot of quality fruit.
     
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  9. OskarDoLittle

    OskarDoLittle Valued Member Premium Member GOLD

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    My understanding of grafting is that the genome of the rootstock has no effect on the genome of the seeds of the scion. (Perhaps this is an incorrect assumption?) The rootstock will affect characteristics of the scion (eg how quickly it grows, what soil it can grow in) but not its genetics. That's the point of cloning.
    This is different to hybrids, where you're growing seeds deliberately cultivated from 2 different varieties. In this case, you might get one particular type of fruit (the result of the hybridisation) but the seeds could subsequently be quite different, having reverted due to alleles from either parent. So the reason so many hybrids are grafted is they're not going to be successfully re-produced from seeds - they need to be cloned and provided a root stock. But my understanding is that Nellie Kelly black is not a hybrid.

    However, if you've let suckers of the grafted P. edulis grow and flower, you might find the seeds from the fruit of the scion (if you can still find the scion! ) are a combination of the rootstock and the scion. But if you have a second passionfruit nearby, the seeds could just as easily be a combination of those genomes.
    So with some apples for example, they are often self sterile, or low fruit producers without a "companion" plant nearby (often of a different variety or cultivar). By necessity then, while the fruit of the tree will be true to form, the seeds will become a cross (hybrid) of the two parent plants. It's going to be hit and miss what you get if you plant the seeds.
    P. Edulis on the other hand is self fertile, so you'd expect it to produce a large number of true seeds - but if other passionfruit are nearby, some seeds will be combinations.
    I agree there are lots of reasons to not plant grafted passionfruit due to the aggressiveness of the rootstock used these days. And certainly in Qld I doubt a grafted plant is necessary.
     
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