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Question Chicken Wormer

Discussion in 'Poultry, Domestic Livestock, Pets, & Bees' started by Perry, Sep 18, 2017.

  1. Perry

    Perry Active Member Premium Member

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    G'day,
    I have allot of chickens, young ones and older one. To worm them would be difficult as they are free range with 4 containers with fresh water. Is there any food that I can feed them that with that will act as a wormer?
    If not what would other poultry breeders suggest.
    Cheers Perry
     
  2. ClissAT

    ClissAT Valued Member Premium Member GOLD

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    Perry there are some liquid wormers that you put in water but unless the birds are locked in & starved of both food & water for days, unfortunately they usually don't take it, so they don't get wormed effectively.
    This has been proven via faecal egg counts prior & post worming.
    So unfortunately there is only one way to get the correct dose of wormer into a chicken.
    That is...down its throat one bird at a time at roosting!

    There is no food or herb that acts as an efficient wormer.
    I'm all for alternative everything but there is only a very few althelmics that actually work & unfortunately they are all chemical or almost chemical.
    Worms are the ultimate survivors that can cope with anything that nature can throw at them.
    That's why it has to be man made or man derived.

    The Avermectin family is the one exception that is almost manmade because it is actually a natural fungus that would not normally find its way inside an animal. It was discovered, formulated & bred up in Japan in the 70's.
    But having found its way inside animals under scientific conditions, the scientists discovered it worked a treat on almost all worms.
    There are now worms that live in most animals that are almost resistant to it but not quite.
    That's why it pays to alternate which wormer family you use on all your animals.
    So the worms don't build up resistance to the one chemical.
    There are other chemicals that are put together in various combinations to treat the whole variety of worms & bots that all animals get. By changing annually, you can generally stave off resistance.

    Do you have a chook house?
    If so, start feeding them yummy feeds in there each arvo for a week until they are used to going in each evening.
    Then one night close the door & wait until they settle down. Quiet chooks are much easier to worm than struggling birds.
    Moxidectin is the best wormer currently available for sale for hens. There is a withholding period of 5days during which time you should dispose of all the eggs either to the dogs or into a specially made compost that doesn't have earth worms in it as the chemical will kill them too.
    The dose rate is 1ml per 1kg of live chook so most adult full sized chooks will get 1.5ml out of a 2ml syringe. You can buy a 2ml syringe at the chemist or maybe you can get one from the vet. You don't need a needle. You only have to buy one syringe because you will clean it out after use & keep it for years.

    This guy, Gecko Dan from the Glasshouse Mountains in SE Qld, will post Moxidectin Plus to you anywhere in Australia. He charges the most reasonable price of any seller in the country.
    http://www.geckodan.com/product/moxi-plus-wormer/

    When you are ready to do the deed, you need to shake the chemical container then let it settle a bit. I wear a head torch & catch each chook in turn off their perch. So you either need to know all your chooks individually so one doesn't get dosed twice (which could kill it) or you need a second pen to put the dosed hens into. You can just pick them up off their roost at night & they wont fight having the syringe placed in their beck. It has to be administered slowly so they swallow it otherwise it will spill out the corner of their beck. This job is best done with an assistant as you have to reload the syringe, grab & hold the bird, then dribble the dose into the beck & maybe do some other vet things while you have it in your arms.

    While you have each bird in your arms you can check for all the other ailments that chooks get such as red mite which bites their legs at night time & causes the scales to lift;
    lice which lays their eggs on the feather shafts around their bum (turn the bird upside down & use scissors to trim off all the affected feathers right then);
    other lice which will run all over you too when you pick the bird up (the wormer will help control them at the same time or you can give added protection with 2-3drops of ivermectin placed under each wing or 'powder puff' them all over under the feathers with some miticide & human grade edible DE mixed in a stocking toe);
    feel their weight to know that they are healthy;
    check their breathing for gurgling which indicates illness or possible crop worms (the wormer will do that one too).
    It is also a good time to trim the rooster's spurs. The roo will get 2 or 2.5ml wormer if he is a big boy.

    Mark uses ivermectin which he gives each bird individually. I'm not sure if he does that for his quail as well. Maybe they get the stuff in water or perhaps he doesn't need to do them at all.
     
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  3. Perry

    Perry Active Member Premium Member

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    G'day ClissAT,
    Thank you for your very informative reply to my problem. I have taken this all on board. I am going to where I get my feed and see they have Moxidectin, if not they will order it for me.
    Cheers Perry
     
  4. ClissAT

    ClissAT Valued Member Premium Member GOLD

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    Perry, rural suppliers are not allowed to sell Moxidectin or Ivermectin in small quantities.
    It comes in 1, 2, 5 & 10lt containers for sheep or horse drenching mostly.
    Apart from the size & the fact that it is illegal for stores to decant from a container that comes from the manufacturer in a certain size, chook use is an 'off-label' use & therefore can not be sold by rural stores. Nor are they allowed to advise you regarding its use for chooks.
    Generally, nor will a vet, because he is doing himself out of a consultation fee. If you got the vet out to worm your chooks he would use a chemical out of a much larger container of sheep drench because he can do what he likes.
    That's why you have to get it from Gecko Dan who raises & sells chooks & lizards. He is licenced to decant into smaller sizes for his private clients only. Very similar to how the vet is allowed to do it.
    By mail ordering from him you become his client so he can decant a small amount for you so long as he provides adequate directions for use.

    Its a grey area of a stupid law that is designed to protect big chemical manufacturers & vets.

    Now another thing to consider is regarding the dispenser if you have a lot of chooks & do buy a one litre bottle of Moxidectin sheep drench. You will find the dispenser which is attached to the bottle, wont be able to dispense in small enough doses for the chooks. So you will have to cut it off which means you wont be able to reseal the container between uses. The product will spoil rather quickly.
     
  5. Mark

    Mark Founder Staff Member

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    Yes Clissa is correct, I used to get my ivermectin online from City Chicks but they have stopped selling it - I found it very effective for both intestinal worms and skin parasites such as mites. Although, I do now "double up" and give my hens a worming tablet as well only because I read that ivermectin may not be as effective on intestinal worms as first thought particularly as I treat my birds by dropping on the skin (back of the neck).

    However, I continue to treat my quail with ivermectin only .5 mil per bird on skin back of the neck and it clearly does stop roundworm infestation.

    This Website is a great find - I didn't know about it! BUT, can you see anywhere where he specifies the use of Moxi on domestic poultry? I had a quick browse and couldn't find a solid reference to use on chickens etc...

    @Perry BTW, if you are interested I have written an article about this subject here on my blog https://www.selfsufficientme.com/po...-lice-treatment-for-chickens-or-other-poultry
     
  6. ClissAT

    ClissAT Valued Member Premium Member GOLD

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    Yes Mark, he's not allowed by law to say moxi+ treats chickens because it is an "Off-Label" use. However it is a label use to treat caged birds with it either by dissolving in water or directly to the beck.
    Vets use it but they buy sheep drench (Cydectin Plus)by the litre or larger bottle for $100's then charge their clients........................... I'll leave the rest of that sentence for your imagination!

    However, getting back to the moxi. It is made of 2 main anthelmintics, praziquantel for the tapeworms & ivermectin for all the body fluid sucking worms & mites. Tapeworm has become quite a problem in all avian species in recent years because it was never considered worth treating.

    You can buy AristoPet caged bird drops which is moxidectin plus but it will cost you a fortune to do several full sized hens due to the dilution rate of the liquid to protect the tiny caged birds.
    Then there is a product called Moxidectin Plus (for caged birds) developed by an Aussie vet.

    Here's a couple of links to pages regarding moxi+;
    http://www.myladygouldianfinch.com/product-moxidectin-plus.php

    http://www.specialistsales.com.au/moxidectin-plus-1000ml-moxidectin-praziquantel.html

    http://www.melbournebirdvet.com/parasite-control-in-poultry.aspx

    Here's a big one for you to read if you like scientific literature! Check the posts at the bottom for pier review papers regarding off-label use in food birds.
    http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog...1KdX5DXRCcprcDJwhOjccsNJVvZvRQaRoC83IQAvD_BwE

    Actually I'm going to start a new thread & post these links there also.
     
  7. ClissAT

    ClissAT Valued Member Premium Member GOLD

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    OK seems I need to amend this statement.
    Moxi+ is now available in pet stores for caged bird use. (But still not for food bird use!)
    But I don't know if it will be as cheap as getting it from the people I linked to in my earlier posts.
     
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